Portland Rosey Awards Smackdown vs Nosey Awards, Twitter and the Social Web
July 1st, 2009 by Dave Allen
Aaahh the social web. As you can see in the image above, the Portland Ad Federation has an annual awards fest, The Roseys, that honors local agencies who provide the best creative work in marketing and advertising or, as a quick Google search returns, “Portland Advertising Federation: Celebrating 100 Years of Setting the Standard for Portland’s Creative, Design, and Media Community!” [I have a problem with that byline - can an advertising federation set 'the standard' or should the federation be setting standards?] Anyway, I digress.
So, as noted above, PAF has recently launched a web site created by Anthill Marketing for this year’s show, with the motto – “Nothing Says I’m Better Than You Like A Rosey” and “Our City Is Better Than Your City.” On the site you can ’spin a wheel’ [whoop-de-doo] and a needle comes to rest on such intelligent phrases as the ones below:
Austin: “Award winning copy in Austin: Yee-Haw”
Boulder: “There are two things Alex Bogusky can never take away from you: your pride and your Rosey”
Seattle: “Fast Company’s 2009 most creative city. How depressing is that?”
San Francisco: “Goodby this, Goodby that. Fuck Goodby”
Vancouver B.C.: “Remember, this is the city that brought you Alan Thicke and Lover Boy”
Well, well, well… [another side note: you've all heard of a band called The Weakerthans right?]
I’ll cut to the chase – I can see exactly what Anthill/PAF were trying to achieve – “edginess” “talking points” “hope this goes viral” etc etc. Basically they want a social media smackdown; bring it on, Portland will fight that fight, look at our logo we are raising the finger at you, yeah you San Francisco and you Goodby…. unfortunately it comes across as if we’re back in high school here, meanwhile not all of Portland’s creative community has embraced the tone of this campaign.
And so, along comes The Nosey Awards! Two Portland creatives [egged on by me I have to admit,] @adognamedpants and @motorcoatdave, created that site along with the Twitter name @noseyawards and the Twitter search hashtag #noseys. Finally things get interesting…
Here’s a fact – on Twitter no one owns a hash tag. For instance, here’s one #nooneownsahashtag. There, I just created it but I can’t own it because the Twitter community owns it by using it. And so it goes with #roseys and #noseys. Anthill and PAF cannot own #roseys and now that #noseys has come along and is being used by Twitter users who follow the thread, the two hash tags become joined at the hip…take a look at my TweetDeck grab below:
The Rosey Awards can’t shake off the Nosey Awards, they are now one and the same. Wherever the Roseys try to go on Twitter the Noseys will be right alongside. The Roseys and the Noseys can now duke it out all summer long. And this is a good thing. The Noseys are creating a ton of brand awareness for the Roseys – a rising tide lifts all boats. As people pile on this particular bandwagon, both pro and con, those little hash tags will be used thereby elevating the experiential awareness of the Roseys across an extremely wide arc. A campaign like this fits rather neatly into my idea of Authenticity and Authority on the Social Web.
The Roseys and the Noseys smackdown will be worth watching and I know it will create an interesting case study; it might even get more people to join the current 25 people on the Roseys FaceBook Group.
Tags: NemoHQ, Nosey Awards, Noseys, PAF, Portland, Portland Advertising Federation, Rosey Awards, Roseys
July 1st, 2009 at 12:53 pm
The PAF mission? Always looking for creative thinkers to refine the vision. Pamplemoose feel free to contact PAF and share your thoughts. Sounds like you’ve got some great ideas.
July 1st, 2009 at 10:17 pm
First of all, who is the author of the above post? I know you guys are all hip, cool, self-effacing designer types. Signature lines would probably mess up your design concept. But seriously. This is a blog. You’re writing in first person POV for chrissake. Who the hell are you?
Okay, now that THAT’s out of my system, I just want to let you know that this was a fantastic post. You guys are great. For instance, regarding your comments on the above headline (not “byline”, as you called it, BTW) on the PAF website, good point. It ought to be rewritten and your idea that the PAF ought to “set standards” is good. In addition, on behalf of the PAF, the Roseys and their SEO teams, I’d like to thank you for embedding all those links back to those organizations. Also, congratulations on your discovery of the hashtag.
Getting back to the subject of authorship. I’m going to assume this was written by Dave Allen, aka @pamplemoose.
Hi Dave (I assume).
280 words into your post, you finally cut to the chase — and not a moment too soon. You wrote: “I can see exactly what Anthill/PAF were trying to achieve – “edginess” “talking points” “hope this goes viral” etc etc. ” With all due respect, Dave (or whoever you are), I suspect it’s time to clean your $750 eyeglasses, because you don’t see what this campaign is trying to achieve. You have become mesmerized by the very “smack wheel” you dismiss with a roll of the eyes and a “whoop-de-doo.” There is more to this campaign than that smack wheel. (BTW, thanks for quoting it. The above insults were penned by yours truly and Rich Lufrano.) If you move beyond the home page of the Roseys site (a maneuver that takes a fraction of the time to accomplish, when compared with the slow downloads on the Cincinnati-steamer-of-flash site NemoHQ), you’ll see what I mean. This campaign is all about promoting Portland’s great creative scene. It has framed that promotion in the time-honored competitive language of trash talk.
Here’s how Urban Dictionary defines trash talk: “In the course of a competitive situation, putting down your opponent verbally or saying how good you think you are. Often involv[es] talk of moms or sisters.” Note the word “competitive.” Dave (or whatever), we operate in the business world. It is, by definition, competitive. The 2009 Roseys campaign uses trash talk, not as an end, but as a means to amp up our community’s competitive energy to become commensurate with our creative energy.
I hope this clears things up for you. If not, please visit AdFreak, the Denver Egotist and other online media sites that “get” it.
Oh, before I go, I just want to clear up a couple of sniggling little details. You happened to mention that two Portland creatives, egged on by you, have created the Noseys, namely @adognamedpants aka Justin Spohn and @motorcoatdave aka David Ewald. A quick Google search on these guys reveals that they are closely associated with Nemo. Justin is an employee. A casual visitor to your blog might conclude that the Noseys is the product of a somewhat random bunch of creatives; yet, upon closer examination, it could alternatively be seen as a tempest in the Nemo teapot. (Of course, I’d never say that, it just looks that way, that’s all I’m saying.) Between this and the above issue regarding authorship, I’d say this blog, in general, could improve in the area of full disclosure. Just a thought, bro. Whoever you are.
Also, you mentioned that things ‘finally got interesting’ with the launch of the Noseys. Sorry dude, but I have to call you out on an eensy weensy bit of intellectual dishonesty. You guys at Nemo — @pampelmoose aka Dave Allen in particular — have been all over the Roseys campaign since it began a month ago. Obviously, you have found it to be intensely interesting. That’s not to say you like it, but you have been very interested. The Noseys are an out-and-out parody. I know you were just trying to be cutely condescending with that remark. But be honest and own your interest. You’re having fun with this. As am I.
Well, that’s about it. I’m going to take off. When I started writing this comment I opened a new page on the NemoHQ site. It should have downloaded by now.
Joel
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 am
Hi Joel,
Thanks for the comment. Of course the post is written by me, it says so at the top of the post. And yes this blog resides in the Nemo world, it says so in the footer. And by the way, Nemo has nothing to do with the Noseys.
If @motorcoatdave and @adognamedpants want to start a site called the Nosey Awards and have fun with it good for them. For clarity @motorcoatdave is not an alias of mine.
It’s amazing to me that I have been fending off insults on Twitter, had a long phone conversation with someone from eROI and now you pile in here trying to expose me for something – what I know not. Do you think I’m hiding something? For the record – I am not behind the Noseys but I think it’s hilarious. I don’t have a complaint with PAF as an organization. I have been very open about my disdain for what I and many other perceive is a negative campaign for this year’s Rosey Awards – you must have noticed them too as I see your contributions in the daily Twitter stream. And I do stand guilty of having a high profile in Portland and for that I can’t apologize
You’re passionate defense of the Rosey’s smackdown campaign and the responses to it (pro or con) on Twitter has been fun to watch as an observer but lately you’ve begun to border on the paranoid, especially with long rants like the one above. Presumably your defense in 140 characters wasn’t working. Switching your attack to Nemo is pointless too. I wonder what you are really afraid of. Are you really that insecure about your work on the campaign?
Finally with regard to the Roseys vs the Noseys dust up I suggest that you keep digging, there’s more to it than meets the eye I assure you. I’m having fun – you? If not please pick the right people to yell at – you actually know who they are.
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 am
Hello Joel,
I feel as though we started our friendship off in a strange way. It would see, above, there are a few misunderstandings that I would like to address.
First and foremost, I’m Dave Ewald. I’ve been considering a move to David, but for now am Dave. I’m originally from Minnesota, though now proudly call Portland my home. I live with my wife and son. We had a dog until about a month ago when she died of cancer. I love taking pictures, consuming music, and watching our baby grow. I do have glasses, though mostly for my horrible vision.
I do, as you have noted, work at Nemo. I recognize that Nemo has had an interesting past with the PAF and the Roseys in particular. One point I really must correct you on – The Nosey Awards really don’t have anything to do with Nemo. Believe me, they’d take credit for it if they did. If that makes it a tempest in the teapot – I’ll leave that up to you and others to decide.
I’ll let Justin Spohn speak for himself, but he’s the other designer type behind the Noseys webpage. Our twitter handles are @aDogNamedPants and @motorcoatdave.
Dave Allen (@pampelmoose) is indeed a master of the RT. From what I can tell, he’s interested in this discussion as well. His thoughts are, as I’m sure he’d echo, very much his own. I can’t, and sometimes wouldn’t want to, take credit for his thoughts on our community.
I think that, at the end of it, we’re all moving toward the same goal – Celebrating Portland’s creative community. My personal issue with this year’s Roseys campaign isn’t so much the smack talk – its that there’s an implied promise that the campaign doesn’t deliver on. Rather than elevating our community’s amazing talent, the entire thing is framed around bringing other people down.
We’ve been over and over this – we get the joke. Our hope with the Noseys, as stated on our site, is recognizing the great work happening here in Portland. And, in our case, engaging the community in a public forum.
I think it is safe to say that our tempest has raised brought up a great number of discussions, thoughts, and debates about all of this nonsense. I guess if I was in your shoes, and my motivations were clear, I’d be amazed that my advertising motivated a community enough to action. True, the action took a different form than the stated goal of winning the smack of the week. I can’t help you there. It would seem that this discussion goes beyond the two self-effacing types behind a webpage. We can add to, but aren’t shaping the entirety of the conversation on Twitter, or here, or in Denver – where at least they get it.
It is all about our community, and broadcasting that creative spirt out. You’re just as much a part of that community as I am, and I hope we can elevate our discussion to something substantive that will, in fact, “get the good gigs.”
Please feel free to write or call any time.
Dave Ewald
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Not in defense of Joel, but just to state a fact… when one views this individual post one does not, in fact, see the author of the post.
July 2nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Kim,
Yes you’re right. We’ve found a bug or a break – thanks to Joel!
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Fist of all – I don’t know where the confusion comes from, but, once and for all: The Noseys was created my Dave Ewald and Justin Spohn alone. From the start we’ve been totally upfront about who we are and how to reach us. If any one has some issue with the Noseys, please take it up with Dave (EWALD, not ALLEN) or myself. But please do not use your frustration with the Noseys as an excuse to both personally and professionally attack Dave Allen or Nemo directly, or the design community broadly. We’re very proud of it and your insinuation that this is somehow NOT us but some nefarious plot of Nemo is frankly a little insulting the work we’ve put into it.
Secondly, the basis of your argument, stripped of all the name calling is something I’ve addressed in the blogs below:
http://anthillmarketing.com/blog/agencylife/portlands-creative-should-live-out-loud/
http://eroidays.com/2009/06/14/no-guts-no-glory/
and on your site here
http://joelgunz-adcreative.blogspot.com/2009/06/2009-roseys-brash-cheap-and-i-wouldnt.html
Each time, I’ve tried to speak to the content of the campaign, without resorting to personal attacks on any one involved. It would be nice if going forward you could show Dave and I the same respect.
Finally, there are a few other things above, places where Joel choose to make this personal, and I want to address these:
When Dave and I architected the Nemo site, our goal was to create a place where any one could come in and comment or critique anything we put up there. The idea was that the value of the work we produce isn’t in what NEMO thinks about it, but what the community thinks. The same values we’re bringing to the Noseys. To Nemo’s credit, they loved the idea and felt like their work could and would stand up to any one out there. Exposing your own companies website, the one you show clients, to the open scrutiny of the public takes courage, and working on the NemoHQ site is one my proudest moments at Nemo. The reason I bring it up is this: if you have a problem with the content of the site, or the structure of the site, Nemo has opened itself up to your comments and I encourage you to leave them there. But to reduce the work of all the people both inside and outside of Nemo who helped create that site to bitter and cheap ad hominem attacks by referring to the site as “Cincinnati-steamer-of-flash site” is not only offensive to them but reduces this conversation to the sort of base level that befits no one.
Second, and more troubling to me is your apparent disdain for the people who work here at Nemo who do in fact belong to the very same community you allege to represent. These are people with wives and husbands and kids and dogs and mortgages. I can’t think of a single person here with $750 glasses. As I write this, I’m wearing a shirt from Old Navy and shoes from The Rack I got got for $30. Like every other designer in this city we all work hard and love what they do. So when you say things like “I know you guys are all hip, cool, self-effacing designer types. Signature lines would probably mess up your design concept” it not only belittles the value we try to bring our clients and our own work, but it insults the very notion of the importance of design and the role of designers.
I’m going to go forward assuming you spoke out of frustration, but, responding not as Justin Spohn of the Noseys, but rather Justin Spohn, 11 year creative professional: let me finish this part off with this: you don’t speak for me, your campaign doesn’t speak for me. The vitriolic tone you’ve chosen to take underscores the very reason I feel it’s time the design community needs the Noseys. Go Noseys!
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Oh @pamplemoose, methinks thou doth protest too much.
Here are the facts:
1. The Noseys campaign is the brainchild of two Nemo employees.
2. The Noseys’ most ardent supporter (on Twitter, anyway) is another Nemo employee.
3. At least two of these three individuals are director-level employees at Nemo.
I understand how creative teams and their pet projects work. These guys work around each other and naturally end up collaborating on pet projects after hours. That’s why I was careful not to refer to the Noseys a Nemo project per se, but as a tempest in the Nemo teapot. I stand by that assessment.
As far as authorship of your post goes, I still can’t find it. Has your blog been optimized for Firefox? Or maybe it’s me, I’m just not seeing it. I’m asking in all seriousness. Feel free to email me a screen shot or something.
Dave, you wrote that you are amazed to be “fending off insults on Twitter.” Come on. Be honest. If anyone has outsmacked the Roseys, it’s been you. Please know, I’m not asking you to stop. Keep it coming. But can you dial back the victim language? Surely, you ought to know that if you live by the smack, you die by the smack. The Roseys gets this. That’s why it put an open Twitter feed on its site. I get this. That’s why I’m responding to you on Twitter and to your blog post above. I hope to see a smacky reply from you.
You claimed that I have ’switched my attack to Nemo.’
“Attack”? Really? Where? When? All I said was that the Noseys came from Nemo people. That is not an attack. It is simply a statement of fact. But your claim brings up another question: Do you feel attacked? Why? How long have you felt this way? From where I sit, I’m simply communicating with you on your turf, using terms we both enjoy: the language of snark.
Your expressed feelings of being attacked by me and of being subjected to insults on Twitter suggests that you must have feelings of paranoia and insecurity of your own to deal with. I could be wrong. I’ve never met you. But I would encourage self-scrutiny in these areas.
For my part, when it comes to the Roseys campaign and this Roseys/Noseys tiff (which, in the big picture is a mere teapot tempest itself), I am truly having the time of my life. It has been a thrill to see you and the others in the Portland creative community jump in and have your say.
I’ll see you on Twitter, if not here.
Best,
@joelgunz
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Dear Dave Ewald –
Let’s forget this whole Noseys/Roseys thing and go have a beer. What say you?
@joelgunz
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Mr. Gunz,
I’m in when you are.
David Ewald
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Are we still talking about this? If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Who cares that Nemo employees worked on it?
Yawn.
July 2nd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Joel, you’ve never met me and I’ve never met you but you are attacking me for the actions of two employees at Nemo. You did attack Nemo, hence – “I know you guys are all hip, cool, self-effacing designer types. Signature lines would probably mess up your design concept.” and “when compared with the slow downloads on the Cincinnati-steamer-of-flash site NemoHQ” and “When I started writing this comment I opened a new page on the NemoHQ site. It should have downloaded by now.”
So here’s a guy who doesn’t know me, who personally hasn’t been attacked by me in any arena, who is involved in a campaign that says its all about promoting Portland’s creative community, yet that person attacks people and a company in the very community he says he’s promoting. Riddle me that Joel…
I at least was homing in on the campaign, not making references to any one person.
I will ignore your facetious comment re hashtags.
July 2nd, 2009 at 3:53 pm
We don’t work at Nemo, and yet we somehow fully support the Noseys. We actually compete with Nemo in some regards, but are united in this one point: there’s nothing interesting, unique, creative, or admirable about being mean.
Especially when it’s under the guise of being all in good fun.
July 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I would like to add to this conversation and share the voice of myself and my company in regards to this situation. There are some points I’d like to weigh in on:
First, even if by design, I don’t agree that the disappointment with the Roseys campaign and the subsequent creation of the Noseys was a conspiracy by Nemo and its minions. If you look at the Twitter stream following the launch of the campaign the reaction has been mixed at best, with an edge towards those who were disappointed and even disgusted by the tone and execution of the campaign. Frankly, most of my peers have shared my view that the Roseys campaign does not reflect the Portland creative community that I know and love.
Which brings me to my second point; the claim that the PAF, and by extension the Roseys, speaks for the entire Portland creative community. It does no such thing. This community is so broad, so diverse, so passionate and so engaged that for any one organization to claim ownership over the entire community is blatantly false. At best the PAF represents a specific segment of the community and speaks for a small segment within that community. I look to the PAF to provide leadership and civil, professional conversation about how to rise all boats. Currently it is failing at both.
Finally, I reject the opinion that any one who has an issue with the tone of the Roseys is representative of Portland’s slacker culture. I reject that notion. We all work hard here in Portland and we are all extremely passionate about what we do. To suggest that the only way we can reach the “heights” of other creative markets is to adopt their culture is just false. To paraphrase Justin, It’s about the work, not about the location or the attitude. When I say that we are doing the best interactive brand work in Portland right now, it’s not because I feel the need to talk trash or to smack down anyone around me, it’s because I’m proud of my team, I’m proud of the work that we do and I believe in Substance.
We will enter our work in the Roseys, not because of the cleverness of the campaign or lack thereof, but because we want represent our work to our peers and be judged with the best of them. We look forward to the success of both the Roseys and the Noseys and to the continuation of the discussion of what it means to be part of this community.
David Lowe-Rogstad
@dlowe93
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:37 am
@dlowe93: I was with you up until your last paragraph.
I’m not sure the Roseys will be getting the “best of”, but even of they did, what does winning a “you suck” award say about the person who wins? Isn’t that sort of like saying, “All the mean people think I’m cool”?
July 4th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Dave E., Justin and Dave A.: Thank you for representing so well what many of us in the PDX creative community feel is misplaced about the #Roseys .
Joel: I’m sorry but having just read this thread for the first time today I feel I may have been a bit too polite and deferential in my reply to your latest blog post, here: http://joelgunz-adcreative.blogspot.com/2009/07/rosey-awards-vs-nosey-awards-why-im.html (And yes, you’re welcome for the inbound links, both here and on Twitter. The more eyeballs the better!) Your derision towards other members of the creative community undermines everything you’ve said regarding wanting to support the PDX creative community and have us take our “rightful” place with the “big-boys.” It also further proves that having swagger and being an asshole are not particularly effective ways of earning respect, at least not the respect of anyone I would respect back.
I also think you really hit the nail on the head when you say “Note the word ‘competitive’… we operate in the business world. It is, by definition, competitive.” At times, of course. It is also many other things. The agency for which I work, Emerge Interactive, often collaborates with a wide variety of creative partners, some from Portland (including some #Roseys boosters), but also many from San Francisco and New York, among other places. Collaboration is at the heart of our business model. So I think you are giving us great insight–albeit indirectly–into what the whole #roseys #noseys discussion is all about. We all want the PDX creative community to succeed and be recognized, but the question is about what *kind* of success we want. Many of us feel that the “I’ll step on anybody’s face I have to to get to the top and then share a drink with them later and laugh it off as ‘just business’ ” approach is *not* the kind of success we want.
Does that mean, as Joel has asserted elsewhere, that we can’t be snarky or need to limit ourselves to unicorns and happy thoughts? Of course not. Does it mean that tomorrow Nemo, Periscopic, Substance, Emerge or any other agency with employees in this debate might not find themselves in a fight-to-the-near-death against each other for an awesome client or campaign? Of course not. (In fact, I’m sure we already have and will again.) Does it mean when we do we won’t fight like hell to win? No again. But it does mean that we see what we do, as well as why and how we do it, perhaps a little differently than some. Which is fine, except when someone tries to claim a point of view we don’t agree with on behalf of a community to which we belong, and then accuses us of being wimps or self-serving because we don’t agree or dare to speak out.
Dino: I’m not sure how I feel about entering/not entering the Roseys this year. (Its not ultimately my decision, but I will be asked to provide input.) Ultimately, winning awards isn’t so much about bragging rights as it is about recognition, not only for one’s own work but for the collaboration that takes place with great clients and often other agencies. So in a way, it would be really sweet (in a competition between ideas sorta way) to win a Rosey. I’m also not so sure we should let one campaign define what a Rosey award means, and I really doubt the PAF wants that either, even if they’re completely happy with this year’s campaign. Being recognized by the Nosey community would be awesome, too, in a different way. So while I can’t speak for Emerge, it might be nice to enter both.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:07 am
To clarify:
By “best” I mean every one in Portland not just the PAF/Roseys. It’s easy to sit on the sidelines and snark, but I do belive there is value in showing up and in participating. It’s only the “mean club” if we let them be that.
I would rather step up to the game, regardless of the outcome: win, lose or draw, than not show up at all. If everyone participates in the Roseys this year, including its detractors, the outcome will show the true character of the PAF and the value of the awards. To sit on the sidelines and complain brings nothing to the dialogue but sour grapes.
David Lowe-Rogstad
@dlowe93
July 5th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Why are people talking about entering the Rosey Awards as if it’s somehow a civic duty?
The PAF is a member-only organization that has chosen a particularly uninspiring and ugly way of promoting itself this year. There isn’t any obligation to support it. If anything, we all should have some bit of civic pride that motivates us to NOT support this type of thing.
July 8th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
At the risk of being named one of the NEMO conspiracy… my $.02
This ain’t sports. Sports is about WINNING. Beating another team to emerge as champions.
Advertising is about COMMUNICATION. Good design, advertising, etc is about getting your message across effectively, and sometimes artfully.
There is competition, but it is not the GOAL.
Smack talking does not improve creative or communication. The vitriol subtly spread across this thread is evidence of that.
Moreover, if they way you win a job is by putting down the competition, then you are insulting your own company by not letting your stuff stand on its own (and the client probably doesn’t get it anyway).
Portland should be recognized for the work. Not for the “hey look at me” campaign.
Also, why bother to put other small markets into the campaign when the “big boys” with whom we wish to compete are generally in top markets (LA, NY, SF, ATL, Chicago)?